added JE meeting ntoes 11/21/18

Author: Steve Krouse

notes/jonathan-edwards/11-21-18.md

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+---
+title: JE Meeting 11/21/18
+---
+
+## JE meeting 11/21/18
+
+* TOC
+{: toc }
+
+### Recap
+
+Instead of jumping right into drawing more "ideal worlds", I was struck by a few thoughts:
+
+1. Sean McDirmid was skeptical of my diagnosis of the key hard parts of Reflex
+2. You mentioned dogfooding so I wondered what the best approximation of it was to build something better
+3. I wanted to get a better sense of the framework before building abstractions on top of it
+
+So my idea was to try and set up a better Haskell/Reflex experience, film myself building things, and then write down complaints. I wasn't able to get a better experience (crazy!) so I went ahead and made a list of key complaints and some next step ideas...
+
+https://futureofcoding.org/log#biggest-experience-problems-with-haskellreflex
+![](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SthuNcU5N3niEn9UUGqlIcDdFMFZFLB5gkiK3ywG0Qay3-KdKlD6OtP90RzP835NqQBVkxOTxrVd16sTQ9eR7jFtQJe0jYH5tK8wXycATlfSwixxg-G6_RWN5WoTJyvZjm_vTpCjQp6B9ugUUFloLIOGQN7aFeWAgbUGY-zzPBxO8MRvV6bJTHHivLwoibJPcmQ32gVcf1gNe2EHz4ft7brr-sRt4z3AC_MQVGKNf3Q0EWVoVFP2wmrFm27ef8ElzN88DPBvNqW5YSvnO-7PSh5pnIKr3RG9egjVmof4KfhlWqFpj7E-nUQrSS8AQSfr8zWj1TG3A7umVBoDVUnwXyRY9OmJspKuNN5YJ2NKZZJFQsmvbqVpygIyN1uQICY-4aDoYZlza3VbMEolnaWdDqehP-sVBmWla55BT5kGvGncUovc_ZI8Y6xe9a-ndt-MqBZt47VY4Vvg2HT-PGb0va39FSQcdt3SWnF3Dz9JxJUpCG_wAsk8gpqZrl9PaiYm749ftEzscpdKhVFxEfUlSxUMPwkC1tfeCelT3vzCyDXw1Zg4Gz_nPokfZzZzUCnA3ffLyiB3k4yfFWnD7ojdVINcgipFKC6mWZFG9M8fG5VPXiwNMttDlUwqXEDkvFbgOU2Uvb7ss_HJDtz8MqMEVoW4eg=w1920-h775-no)
+
+### drawing ideas
+
+* maybe livestream it somehow to encourage me to actually do it?
+* think more precisely abstractlbetter distinguish my "vision" from exsiting Haskell alternatives (lamdu, luna, isomorf)
+  * the idea of never being able to "delete" anything, nor stop it from running
+  * the idea of hashed expressions, particularly with scope
+  * exploring which concepts we can move from the language compiler to the editor (no free variables, type inference is just local if not just a type "suggestion")
+
+### Next steps
+
+* p4 next steps
+  * read the first 6 chapters of TaPL
+  * draw out what a better time would look like
+* schedule JE podcast 
+
+### notes from JE
+
+* they have generators in JS so maybe we have laziness and also weak refs maybe
+	* TODO ask ryan trinkle
+* building a langauge is a lot but a JS framework is great
+	* people would immediately download and play with it
+* interpreting haskell seems like a lot of work
+* starting from the top (the UI like aprt.us) is good
+* could start from a DSL for the streams  --> maybe a macro thing for JS or a little lang with syntax and a parser with embedded JS
+* he's skeptical of the Xerox parc advice to build one's own infrastructure to build what you want on top
+* imagining UI is a pain but implementing is weeks or months of work, but a DSL can give you great sense of the UI and so much easier to build
+  * the risks with this is that you'll go with things that are good on paper but hard to visualize
+  * tons of DSL tools: spoofax, MPS, look into this for JS
+* strongly recommends typescript
+  * there's a lot of work on "functional typescript" and some even have typeclasses!
+* subtext in the past has been "parametric in my mind", living in multiple places in the design space 
+
+
+### His work
+
+* minimum viable paradigm
+* maybe someone will steal it if it's communicated well enough
+* maybe people would join as contributors and could work on parts
+* classically, research is stealing idea -- not working with you
+* people who cite me is for "inspiration" and I don't get cited in actual research yet because they are not solid enough --> like how Eve inspired Apple
+* ultimate goal is to have an impact and what's the best way of doing that?
+* I've always avoided making design commitments but now it feels good to settle down 
+* think on a time to do a work retreat with JE, maybe Sarah will come
+* reminder that PX deadline Feb 1
+
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